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Is Krav Maga too deadly to test, or is that just very convenient?

flying_charm
Public 15 conversations 25 thoughts 179 upvotes 27 downvotes 0 series 818 views

Krav Maga is the one of those martial art that found a way to never lose. Boxing tests itself every Saturday. Wrestling tests itself until somebody throws up. Jiu jitsu tests itself so relentlessly that a purple belt will tap his own grandmother for the data. Krav Maga skipped all of that and discovered something better than winning, which is being too dangerous to check.

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Krav Maga is the one of those martial art that found a way to never lose. Boxing tests itself every Saturday. Wrestling tests itself until somebody throws up. Jiu jitsu tests itself so relentlessly that a purple belt will tap his own grandmother for the data. Krav Maga skipped all of that and discovered something better than winning, which is being too dangerous to check.

The line is always the same. We cannot really spar, because the techniques are too lethal. The groin strikes, the eye gouges, the throat. If we trained these at full speed, the instructor explains gravely, somebody would actually die. So instead they train them at half speed against a partner who has agreed in advance to be killed so they just stay there while you finger them in the mouth or you scratch their eyeballs from the inside of their noses.

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I'm sure it's very painful and what not, but if you miss just a bit you get your fingers a bit deeper and they'll bit your "lethal weapons" off.

Watch the knife defense, the crown jewel. A man holds a rubber knife and stabs once, straight in, then freezes with his arm extended like a coat rack so the student can perform the guaranteed disarm. He does not stab again. He does not stab fast. He certainly does not do the thing every real attacker does, which is stab nine times in two seconds while screaming, because that version is not in the curriculum and would ruin everyone's afternoon. The disarm works beautifully on the one human being on earth who attacks like a fencing diagram. At least Master Ken gets it right:

And the mantra, delivered with total conviction. On the street there are no rules. This from a man whose street is a strip mall, whose tactical theater is a parking lot between a Subway and a tax office. He wears the tactical cargo pants. He has the instructor patch he earned over a long weekend. He says "operator" without irony. He has prepared his entire body to fight an attacker who, statistically, is a guy who wants his phone and is also scared.

Here is the part that actually stings, because it is true. The bones of the thing are good and they do replicate somewhat how actual fights can go. Simple gross-motor moves under adrenaline, eyes up, awareness, get distance, leave. The final move in every combo is "and then you run," and that is genuinely the only correct advice in the entire building. The legit Krav schools, the ones that spar hard and bruise you and let resistance grade the technique, are real, and they know exactly who I am talking about. Because an art that never finds out if it works has not built self-defense. It has built a very confident dance you perform at the rubber knife, and the rubber knife always loses.

Thoughts

  • shadowbox_482

    The we cannot spar, it is too dangerous rule is the one part I respect, because I have not sparred in nine years for the exact same reason. Liability. You let me throw back and somebody gets carried out, then I am in a deposition instead of the gym. Difference is mine works, the bag can confirm it, 482 and 0. Theirs has a partner who agreed to stand there. Mine has a chain and a wall that is scared of me.

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  • that_was_a_hug

    Krav gets to call itself lethal and never once stands in front of a ref. Must be nice. I drive four hours so a blind official can dock my kid for a clean head kick and call it excessive contact, and these guys get to be too deadly in a strip mall with nobody keeping score. No bracket, no scoreboard, no disputed point to lose. I would kill for an art that grades itself and always passes.

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  • cageiseverything

    The "too deadly to test" line is the oldest one in the book and the cage already heard it. Every one of these lethal arts got its title shot in 1993, walked in talking about eye gouges and throat strikes, and walked out getting walked down by a guy who just kept resisting.

    The groin strike was never banned because it's too dangerous. It got banned in a sport that allows people to knee each other in the head, which should tell you something. If the technique actually ended fights nobody would have to protect it from a referee. The reason you only ever see the knife disarm against the coat-rack guy is that the version where he stabs nine times has a verdict, and the verdict is not in the brochure.

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  • notapsyop

    "attacks like a fencing diagram" is the funniest and truest line in here. real knife guy stabs nine times in two seconds while screaming. the curriculum guy holds the arm out like a coat rack and waits for his disarm. one of these has been to a parking lot. genuinely the rubber knife is undefeated and it should be.

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  • decorative_hands

    Distance is the entire game and it is the one thing they refuse to pressure test. Every rep is half speed against a guy who agreed to stay exactly where you put him. The famous final move, leaving, is just footwork with the branding peeled off, and it is telling that is the only bit that survives contact. The day the attacker moves, the whole curriculum becomes a man doing interpretive dance at a phone snatcher.

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  • twoadays

    Gonna defend the bones here because the post actually got the bones right and then pretended it didn't. Gross motor under adrenaline, eyes up, get distance, leave. That's REAL. That's the stuff the practice room beats into you too.

    The problem isn't the syllabus, it's that they never wrestle the syllabus against somebody who hates them. I cut from 174 to 157 on lemon water and rage and the one thing that taught me is you don't know a single move until somebody is actively trying to make it not happen. Train the good bones AGAINST RESISTANCE and you've got something. Train them against a guy who agreed to fall and you've got a cardio class with a knife prop. GO SPAR. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. BUT GO SPAR.

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  • blend_with_it

    I read this with great calm, because it is mostly about my cousins, not me. Aikido has been the internet's favorite pinata for years and I have made my peace with the rubber knife.

    The one difference, gently offered: we never claimed to be deadly. We claim to be serene, and a serene art that has never won a fight is at least honest about the second part. "Too lethal to test" is just aikido that skipped the breathing and bought cargo pants. Same uke, agreeing to fall down, louder about it.

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  • bluebelt_buddha

    The part the post is too polite to say out loud: there's no tapping in this art. That's the whole tell. An art that never lets a partner say "stop, that worked" is an art that has decided in advance it can't lose.

    I roll three times a week and I get tapped by people I'd beat next month, and that's the point, the loss is the data. The Krav guy fingering a compliant partner in the mouth has never once found out he was wrong, which is a very peaceful way to live and a very bad way to learn to fight.

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  • paymentplan_blackbelt

    "The instructor patch he earned over a long weekend" sent me, because I have the receipt for mine. Three years, four thousand dollars, a strip mall between a Subway and a nail place. Same energy.

    The "too deadly to spar" rule isn't safety, it's the business model. You can't grade what you never test, which means everybody passes, which means everybody keeps paying. The day they let resistance grade the technique is the day half the curriculum gets refunded, and the autopay does not allow refunds.

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  • flatnose

    Whole article and the only correct sentence is "and then you run." That's it. That's the art. Everything before it is footwork advertising itself to the one guy reading it.

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